Ep. 61 - The Kink Consultant Conversation with Amanda Dames

Kink has a PR problem, and we’re not helping it when we reduce the whole topic to leather and whips. Helen sits down with Amanda Dames, a certified sex and relationship professional who worked as a dominatrix in a New York City dungeon before building a coaching business for married couples and monogamous partners who want to explore kink safely. What follows is less “shock” and more “oh, that actually makes sense,” because the real subject is trust, boundaries, power dynamics, and the courage to be honest about desire.

Amanda breaks down kink as a spectrum, including the kinds of fantasies many people don’t even realize count: wanting your partner to take charge, craving praise, enjoying service and caretaking, or leaning into romance as a real erotic desire. We talk about how culture shifts what’s considered “normal,” why people feel shame even when nothing is wrong, and what she learned from clients who had successful lives on paper but felt disconnected sexually at home. If you’ve ever wondered why a desire gets louder the longer it’s ignored, this conversation puts words to it.

If you’re curious, skeptical, or trying to talk to a partner without making it weird, press play. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs a healthier framework for desire, and leave a review so more people can find the conversation.

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Music Credit:  True Living by Patrick Moore

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Transcript

Cold Open On Taking Chances

SPEAKER_05 0:09

Everyday people following their passions.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

That's probably like one of the highlights of my life so far. Just being able to be creative like that. Something I've always wanted.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

And then I decided to get another hive, and that turned into a lot of hives. As long as I can do that, I want to be a good citizen, help people out.

SPEAKER_05 0:33

Putting themselves out there, taking chances, and navigating challenges along the way.

SPEAKER_04 0:40

I I absolutely identified with having stage ride because, you know, anytime I went on stage, I just felt like I was having a hot attack.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Very first lap, very first practice session, I crashed, turned the car upside down, made a spectacle of myself, and I got back on that horse and started riding again.

SPEAKER_05 0:56

As they pursue what makes them happy and brings them joy.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

As long as people are having a good time and I have the opportunity to put smiles on people's faces. I love what I do.

SPEAKER_07 1:08

I have done things that I never thought I could do.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

To have somebody tell me how real it looks and how, you know, from their actual memory. Because that's telling me I've captured what I was trying to get.

SPEAKER_05 1:24

Welcome

Kink Warning And Guest Setup

SPEAKER_05 1:25

to Assorted Conversations. I'm your host, Helen. Hello, and thanks for tuning in to another Assorted Conversation. So, this week's episode, we're gonna file under, and now for something completely different. Before we get started, just a heads up, today's topic is kink. Yes, that's what I said. Kink. My guest this week is a certified sex and relationship professional who is helping couples introduce and explore kink in their marriages or monogamous relationships. Her academic achievements, coupled with her experience as a dominatrix in a New York City dungeon, made for a very interesting and educational conversation. With that being said, please be advised before blasting this through speakers or listening in the car with children of any age. Now, pour yourself a glass of wine, dim the lights, listen to this week's episode, and I'll see you on the other side. Now, if you're sitting there thinking, I don't know anything about kink, is this episode even from me? You are not alone. I'm wondering the same thing myself. But the answer is an absolute yes. Today's conversation goes way beyond leather and whips. This week's guest is here to break down the universal psychology of trust, power dynamics, and boundaries. By the end of this episode, we're going to walk away with a masterclass in radical self-honesty, deep communication strategies we can use in any relationship, and the inspiration to embrace our own desires with zero shame and a hundred percent confidence. Get ready for real talk, zero judgment, and an incredibly fun ride. I am so happy to welcome to Assortic Conversations the amazing Amanda Dames. Hi, Amanda.

SPEAKER_07 3:49

Hey, Helen, thank you for that. I was like, I need to steal that intro and like put it before any time I open my mouth because you really had me with if this sounds like it's not for you, like may yeah I understand that because I face that doing the work I do. So many people think, oh, kink, I'm not kinky. This isn't for me. And then we even just get 10 seconds into a conversation and I've got them hooked, and they're realizing, oh, maybe I do have a few fantasies

Corporate Ladder To Dungeon Doors

SPEAKER_07 4:20

or I do imagine certain things. So I'm so excited to be here.

SPEAKER_05 4:24

Well, I thanks for taking the time. When you originally reached out to me, that was my initial reaction. I was like, oh, I don't know. I don't know if this is for the audience. But I think the fact that where you're at now started kind of as a moonlighting job while you were burning through corporate ladders, you know, in your in your day job and in corporate marketing, it just, you know, it kind of speaks to, okay, this was the side hustle, or, you know, it is something she's passionate about. Now you've turned it into a full-fledged coaching business. So, and relate, you know, relationship coach business. So yeah, that when I when I looked at it through that lens, I was like, oh yeah, I think people would definitely, you know, get something out of this and be interested in learning more about it because there are aspects of what you do, even if it's not the kink part of it, but there are aspects of what you've learned and what you coach people on that we can apply, you know, in our own personal relationship. So that's what I'm eager to dig into. But yeah, you know, I have to ask, you were a dominatrix at one point. So I do want to hear some stories.

SPEAKER_07 5:36

Oh, absolutely. So you you're a hundred percent right. I was trying to climb the corporate ladder in America, and I had this great job, amazing health insurance. Wasn't necessarily making rent. Or, you know, I could make rent, but I wasn't living life in New York City. I wanted to go to the fancy restaurants, I wanted to experience the Broadway shows.

SPEAKER_05 5:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 5:59

But that required a slightly higher budget. So I got a second job as a pro dom in a dungeon. I've always been kinky. Like I've known from a young age I had this interest or weird obsession with punishment and spanking, not being punished myself, would never want that. But if a friend was getting punished, I wanted to hear all about it. Like, why'd you get in trouble? What did you do? What happened? And I'd get excited by hearing their stories. So think of that. Like, I'm knowing this from five years old. I already feel like such a weirdo because I don't know why I care about this and nobody else cares. And then, like, we're talking less than 20 years later from that point. I find out, I find myself interviewing to work at a dungeon, like through a job I found on Craigslist.

SPEAKER_05 6:46

Wait a minute. From from five years old to I'm assuming mid-20s, what happened? Like, how did how did you either nurture it or so much?

unknown 6:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 6:57

So I'm gonna, the quick thing, let's jump ahead to when I'm 13 years old. I've been fantasizing about like making up different scenarios in my head where I'm punishing someone or I'm getting in trouble for some reason. I'm 13. I'm watching like the late night TV shows, and there's this documentary style show, and there's this couple, and they're both submissive. So they go to a dominatrix to have their needs met because they're both submissive and they want to go to someone to dominate them. And everything clicked for me in that moment. I realized everything I'm obsessing over is sexual. When I'm 18, I will just go to a dominatrix and she will do the things I've been thinking about and life will be normal. It didn't occur to me I could even have it in my real personal life at 13, uh-huh. But then slow, like by the next year, I got my first boyfriend, I got him to spank me, and like the idea of a dominatrix was far in the back of my head. I did not think anything of it. I was like, okay, I don't need this. I like, I'll find it in my personal life. And then there was actually a long period of time still being very embarrassed and ashamed of my desires and not being able to talk to my partners, my different boyfriends, about what I wanted without feeling stupid, weird, like a burden. And then I moved to New York City and I knew the job of being a dominatrix existed. I'd actually read a book about a woman who had done it, and the opportunity, I just thought it's the most understandable feeling to think, oh, I want to do like I'm anonymous in New York City. I can do and be whoever I want, and let me dip my toes into being a dominatrix. So I took I took that job, was making really great money, and for the first time in my life, deeply exploring every nook and cranny that comes along with feeling kinky, right? Uh-huh. Kinky is a spectrum, right? I'm like, if you talk to other really kinky people, and you know, they might follow me on social media or listen to my podcast, but they think, oh, this girl's barely kinky at all. And my point is exactly, I can barely be kinky at all and still have issues talking to my partner about it and have struggled with it and now want to help other people with it. And that's what happened at the dungeon. Like, my mind and world in kink expanded exponentially because I learned so much about what people's different interests were in things I would never have thought to Google. Clients would come in and ask for it, and then I'd have to like learn how to do it on the job and provide it. So, what was a side hustle was actually like my college education in kink and BDSM that set me up for the career I have now that I never knew I would ever want. Uh-huh. Right. So I know you want stories.

SPEAKER_05 9:47

So I'm gonna Well, I I I have questions. I have actually I have a lot of questions. So by day, you have you're doing, you know, everything everybody else around you is doing. By night, you are secretly trying to reconcile what's been going on in your head and your heart for years.

SPEAKER_07 10:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:09

Correct? So, how did you work up the confidence to go apply to be a dominatrix when it was just something that had been very abstract in your head?

SPEAKER_07 10:23

I am too dumb to worry about confidence. Do you know what I mean? Like, I didn't even know I needed to be confident. I was just so curious, and that leads me in so many different directions because I'm not thinking I have to be any type of way. I go in with this learner mentality of have you ever heard that thing where people describe themselves by their job or their education or whatever they put value in, right? Yeah. If you strip all of that away, how do you describe yourself? Yeah, I realized I'm a learner. I am so curious. And I the baseline version of me just wants to know why, know how. So I didn't even think about being confident. I was, I just wanted in the doors. I wanted to see what it was gonna be like. That it never occurred to me I'd have to be good at it. I just wanted to try it.

SPEAKER_05 11:11

How did how did you get past the the the the stigma? You know, maybe maybe confidence was the wrong word. How did you get past the stigma of it?

SPEAKER_07 11:21

No, the more interesting thing is like that question brings something up in my chest because I am not past the stigma of it now.

SPEAKER_05 11:30

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_07 11:30

I think I am on a crusade to destigmatize kink because I'm tired of the stigma that I still feel sometimes too. And what I mean is I kept it secret for a reason. I didn't want to I kept it secret because you can't tell people you're into this stuff, at least not publicly. This was a time where, yes, 50 Shades of Grey, the book had come out, but the movies hadn't even come out yet, right? Kink and BDSM still had a terrible they do now as well. Like I'm learning

Stigma, Secrecy, And New York Anonymity

SPEAKER_07 12:05

being in the Midwest after living in New York City and Vegas, that kink is still this scary thing. People think, oh, everyone into kink and BDSM has a messed up head.

SPEAKER_05 12:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 12:15

So at the time, I think I thought I did have a messed up head. I was I believed that, oh, I'm into these things, so something must be wrong with me. It was a self-acceptance of something's wrong with me, but I don't have enough answers, so let me keep going forward and get answers. Okay, interesting. Yeah. So that was, I think, where the confidence and getting past the stigma came from. I used to be embarrassed when people called me a weirdo, which happened a lot growing up in Ireland, to be honest. But it and eventually you're just like, okay, I'm a weirdo in New York City. And if you look around, everyone's kind of weird. And that gave that gave me permission. So I think what got me past the stigma was being in New York City where everyone is so individual. And I recently said to someone about being in Kansas City and it being very different from New York or Vegas. And they made a joke. They were like, yeah, that's because all of the interesting people went to New York and Vegas. So that's why it's so different in Kansas City. And I sometimes feel that. So I don't know if I would have been as brave if I lived in Kansas City going for something like that. I never would have done it in Ireland, a small where I grew up, a small country where people are quite judgy. So, or at least they were at the time. I think it's changed a lot and grown a lot. But I know that I would not have been as confident or willing to go work in a dungeon in Dublin as I was in New York City. It was the anonymity. And unless you've lived in Manhattan, I think that you don't fully understand the power of moving somewhere. No one knows you. And you could leave the next year and no one will remember you were there anyway. That's New York. And it allowed me to have it. So I think the answer is probably New York. We got there in the end, Helen. We got to answer. New York City is why. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:01

Oh, that's funny. So, God, I don't even know what to ask you. It's like, did they have it on boarding program? What was day one like?

SPEAKER_07 14:10

This is a great, okay. So day interview day, right? I show up and I am nervous in the interview because I feel like I'm gonna be judged and told I'm an idiot and not cut out for it. And that's rejection, no matter what form you receive rejection in, is not fun. To be told you're not enough to be here, so we don't want you here would have killed me. It turns out the bar for being a dominatrix is low. Like it's you gotta just look presentable. And I don't even mean you have to look drop dead gorgeous. You literally just to, you need to look dressed and like you know how to put yourself together and you need to be able to talk to people. So the manager working was particularly difficult to talk to. She was kind of mean in the interview. When you got to know her, she was just, she was actually lovely and the most protective woman you could even imagine. She was a mama bear through and through, but until you're in her circle, you're a threat. So she was a mama bear protecting her cubs who were the DOMs working there. And I was an outsider. So she didn't look at me. She literally was looking at monitors where they have street cameras to make sure it's safe and they can watch who's coming and going. And I I was out to impress. So I tried to explain. I'm kinky, I'm submissive, but I think I know what it takes to be a Dom. I'm involved in the local community. I go to kink parties. And, you know, it was basically like, okay, this woman's not an idiot. She fully understands what kink is, which is more than a lot of other people who interview. And the job she was basically, okay, when can you start? What shifts do you want? You choose the shifts, but you either have to be here 11 to 6 or 5 to 1 a.m., something like that, right? And I was like, I can't be here at five. I finished my other job at five. And she's like, she rolled her eyes, she was like, fine, you can come at 5:30, but don't tell anyone we're letting you do that. So there was flexibility in it. So I show up on day one, and yeah, I'm definitely nervous because I'm like, what if I suck at this? Like, that's when it hits me. I'm like, oh, I could be terrible at this, or what did I get myself? Yeah. And I finish my job at the Wall Street Journal. I would close my laptop and I literally just run down the 10 blocks because I don't want to be late on my first day. Run down the 10 blocks to where the dungeon is. And I walk in and it's a different manager. And this woman could not have been nicer. She looks me up and down and she says, Oh, I like how you're dressed. You've got a whole like step for Dom thing going on. Cause I was dressed for corporate America in this little like dress with a thin belt at the waist, which was all the rage in 2013. Like, that's how you dressed. And she gave me confidence in being like, I felt like I could carve out my own little place. But as for training on the job, you all of the other women you were working with were your competition. You only got paid if you got a session and you were competing with other women for the same session. So you had to basically ingratiate yourself into their little community and convince them to teach you. And it helped them to teach you because then our dungeon is known as a good dungeon where everyone's smart and no matter who you get, they're going to know how to do a session with you. So more men come because it's a trustworthy place. But at the same time, they don't want to teach you too much in case you get a session over them. So it's you are fighting to learn and you have to be curious. If you're just there thinking your looks are going to get you

Training, Pay Structure, And Legal Lines

SPEAKER_07 17:40

by, that is false. Okay. So you have to find out what sessions people are going into and say, like, oh, hey, can I get a tip in? Because you never want to give a man something free. You can't show up for free in the session because then he's getting a woman for free. And that is the economies are not there when someone's walking in. So you ask to tip in and learn. So you get $20 for showing up for 10 minutes. And in that 10 minutes, you're taught something new and you build on your skill set. So that happens over months, not day one.

SPEAKER_05 18:11

So okay. And please, no disrespect intended to you or anybody else that works in dungeons.

SPEAKER_07 18:19

But is it legalized prostitution? Oh, there's no sex. Okay. Yes. So we don't have sex with clients. In fact, there are a lot of laws, and I'm not saying people didn't break these specific laws, but there is no sex at a dungeon. If you are expecting to go to a dungeon and pay someone extra money to have sex with you, you are about to be sorely disappointed. No one is going to have sex with you for that reason. It's illegal to do so. What were folks going to the dungeon for? You were paying money basically to role play, to be in a headspace. Like I had clients pay me just to spank them and tell them they were bad. I had clients who wanted me to pretend to be their babysitter. I had clients who just wanted to talk about their fantasies because they didn't feel accepted in their relationship. Their spouse knew they had it, but they were like, no, I'm not doing that with you. And for a lot of people, it is a need. Not everyone, but you know, for the ones who were like, I need this or else I don't feel like fully, yes, they don't feel whole. So they would come and they would, yes, they might masturbate at the end of a session, but I wasn't masturbating them for, you know, I wasn't touching them. In fact, here's where the legality got questionable. You couldn't exchange body fluids. So if a man wanted you to spit in his mouth, which is a common request, that's illegal. They want to feel degraded, right? So you can't exchange body fluids. I think you could spit on someone, just not in their mouth. Okay. The majority of my clients are heterosexual couples who are married 20 years, 15 years, and just want to introduce they don't want to go to a dominatrix. I basically did that job. And now my clients are the people who are like, I've done the dominatrix thing. I don't want to go to them anymore. I want to explore this with my wife.

SPEAKER_05 20:11

Yeah. Yeah. Now, for you, through through the dungeon experience and your journey, what did you learn about you? And what did you learn about other folks that either, you know, made you feel more comfortable in your own space, you know, with everything that you had been carrying with you? I guess let's start there. What did you learn about you that put you more at ease?

SPEAKER_07 20:38

You know, I don't think I was, I was 24 and 20. I worked there for two years, from 24 to like 26. And I don't think I fully paid attention to what I was learning or I wasn't applying it to my own life. Like the lessons I learned didn't really click until years later. So the number one thing that sticks with me to this day, and I hear it in a different version in my role as a coach now. Men would come to me and they would say, I married the person I was supposed to marry. I didn't know I could have this in my marriage or in my personal life. They essentially meant they married the trophy wife, the person who looked good on paper and never thought about their own pleasure and desires in the bedroom because they were on a track. They were going to climb the ladder in corporate America. And these were men who made high six-figure salaries with a seven-figure bonus in New York City. They were millionaires. They had the wife that looked good at the corporate dinners, and I'm sure she was lovely, but she definitely did not share his interest in kink or BDSM. And he was pushing it down for so long. So then he would come to the dungeon and he would seek it out and he would enjoy it. And he'd feel good that he got to experience it. And then he'd go home to his wonderful life. That honestly, at the time, I was quite jealous of. I had no empathy for these men. I thought your life is perfect. Boo-hoo. You don't have this thing that you could have asked for earlier. In your life, but you didn't. Right. I have a lot more empathy now. But I remember thinking, okay, Amanda, the number one thing is you cannot end up with someone who's not kinky,

What Clients Reveal About Intimacy

SPEAKER_07 22:10

or else you'll be unhappy like these people are. So, and I noticed that if you don't have this part in your life, it becomes a larger portion of the pie in your head. So these people had everything. In my 24-year-old's eyes, I was like, oh, you're where I want to be. But they didn't have kink, they didn't have the intimacy they wanted in their relationship. And that became a huge thought in their head, even though we all say, Oh, sex isn't that important. You barely have sex 20 years into a marriage. But I'll tell you, it better be good then, because if you're only doing it once every three months, you want it to be great. So, my what I learned was, okay, prioritize this. It matters. Intimacy and connect sexual connection is important. But I don't think I fully understood how, why, or what it looked like to be prioritized in a safe, healthy way until years later. And even now that I work with couples and I help them introduce this in their marriage 15 or 20 years in, I see the nuance of what it means to prioritize it in a health and safe way, healthy and safe way, because you can't be obsessive about it. You can't always be talking to your partner about it, even though what's happening is couples, when they when the person doesn't have it, it becomes a larger piece of the pie. So they obsess over it as opposed to just getting it once a month and not thinking about it the rest of the month. So I learned, okay, this is important for me. I need to go after it. But I don't think I learned how to do that safely and well. I was just sort of dating a bunch and throwing this out there as opposed to being intentional. And what I learned about myself was it's okay to want these things. In fact, it's normal. The most dangerous thing is to not embrace it. So I started to just be more I embraced it, I just didn't understand how to share it at the time. Does that make sense? Like I embraced it, I accepted myself doing that work, but to my point of still being feeling the stigma, yeah, it took a long time for me to truly be okay with telling people who weren't my partner about it. No, I mean about being kinky. You know?

SPEAKER_05 24:24

Yeah. I know I could, I completely, I, I completely understand that because again, like I said, when you approached me, I was like, gee, I don't know. I this is might be a little off-brand for me, but you know, I was kind of fascinated by your journey and and by where you are now. And, you know, it's it's kind of how you got there and what drove you, not so much, you know, what you're doing now, because what you're doing now is you're taking all of that knowledge, all of that understanding of things that people just stuff down for years and never talk about. You actually rolled up your sleeves and weeded through the crap to figure it out so that you can actually, you know, get the diamonds in the rough and bring those into couples' relationships to help their relationships get stronger. You know, it it's education, it's acceptance. And that's what I truly loved about your story when we, you know, when we first started talking. And that's what got me over the stigma of, oh, I don't know. I don't know if we should talk about kink. But, you know, what what you've done through that, I think is is really valuable and really important for the people that you work with. And it's it's also, you know, again, educating me. I, you know, like I told you before we were on mic, I have the sense of humor of a 12-year-old boy. I've had to mute my mic a couple times to keep from giggling. But you're you're also educating me. And, you know, life is life is a journey. If you stop learning, to me, you stop living.

SPEAKER_07 26:00

So that's how I feel. And kink is about curiosity. But I on this point, I agree with you completely because as I said, I talk about all of these things, but my own life, compared to many kinksters, actually looks very vanilla, right? Because I'm with a partner. We live a very boring normal life. We do not have look at my office. It's it's my office is pink and full of color, and there's no like whips and chains and leather. Because you can explore this, it's a spectrum, right? Yeah. And my work at the dungeon took me deep down paths where I learned everything. So now I said it was like a college education. You can bring almost any kink up to me, and I might call it something different, but I've experienced it or engaged with it in some type of way already. So there is nothing anyone can bring me that shocks me or that I would judge because I'm familiar with it. But the way I live my life now and why I do this work is you can hear the word kink in BDSM, and I want people to understand it's a spectrum. It literally could just mean being

Kink As A Spectrum Of Desire

SPEAKER_07 27:05

tied up during sex or even having your hands held above you. Or I don't know if you've heard this, but have you ever heard a woman say, I just want him to take charge in the bedroom? Yeah, I think I've actually even said it. That is kink, right? And I think they shy away from the word kink. And I talk about this a lot. I actually wrote an article that no one would publish, but it says kink has a PR problem. And I think that that's why if I describe to you, well, I just like when he tells me to get on the bed and be a certain way, and then he's a little rougher, but very loving too, and I trust him. That's kinky sex. And I think the thing that people don't realize is kink and fantasy and desire can look a bunch of different ways. And something I'm running into a lot as a coach is I meet men and women, and a lot of time the kinky partner coming is a man, and the non-kinky partner is a woman. I say, Well, what's your fantasy? What's your desire? And she quickly says, I don't have one, I don't have a fantasy or a desire. Yeah, that would have been my go-to. Because she's comparing it to her kinky partner, right? And I'm like, no, you you must. And what I've noticed, and I'm pretty angry at society about this, is a lot of women's fantasy that they should get to live out is being wined and dined and taken on a helicopter ride and on a fancy date and made to feel like a princess. That can be your fantasy. It's a it can be your desire, and you deserve that. But society tells you, oh, you're a gold digger if that's what you want. And I think that people now shy away from even indulging or sharing that fantasy because they feel invalidated in wanting to be treated like a princess, and there's nothing wrong with it. If you feel sexier, if you feel more cared about and taken care of by experiencing that fantasy, share it. Because the equivalent might be your husband wanting you to be in laundry or your partner wanting you to role-play a stranger who meets in a bar, right? And those kinks and fantasies and role plays are almost celebrated. Like, yes, go be adventurous. Why can't being wined, dined, and taken on a helicopter ride be just as celebrated as a fantasy you get to indulge? Yeah. That's what I want to know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:24

Well, and but I think you know, the word kink immediately denotes an image and an attitude and a darkness. I I don't think kink is associated with being light and romantic and pampering. I I I think it's just the opposite. So, you know, when you said, oh, that's kink too. I in my in my head, I'm like, no, it there's nothing kinky about that. That's that's more romantic.

SPEAKER_07 29:54

And ro but romance can be your fantasy, right? Yeah. And it doesn't, you don't need to pretend. Here's the thing about kink, right? Do you know there's something called a praise kink of just being told, good girl, good job. You're doing such a good job. And it could be something sexual, like you could be saying you're doing such a good job doing something sexual. I'm mindful of your podcast listeners, but it also could be there's service submission. And that's a kink where people get excited and disproportionately happy serving someone in ways that might include doing their taxes or doing their dishes for them. And there's a large debate on the internet right now about something called a trad wife, a traditional wife who's gone back to more of the I work and raise the kids and stay at home, and you go out and you know, have a job that pays money and we have a balanced life. There are a lot of people who are kinky out there saying, this is just the role play I live with my partner all the time because I do the dishes and we live in a 1950s style household, and that's a kink. So I really think intention does matter of whether something is kinky or not, but kink is not all pain and suffering and scary. It's a lot of love and cuddling and exploring fantasy with intention.

SPEAKER_05 31:14

Yeah. Interesting. Uh, you know, you you you said kink is a

BDSM Basics From Light To Intense

SPEAKER_05 31:20

spectrum. Walk us through kind of the, I don't want to say milestones, but you know, walk us through the different stages of the spectrum, starting with like probably the most innocuous.

SPEAKER_07 31:34

So you also have to think of it's not just the spectrum, but it's kind of like an overton window of this is what society deems as normal. And everything in the overton window would not be considered kinky, and then everything outside of it is kinky. So there was a time in life where a blowjob would have been considered kinky, and now that's the thing teenagers do before they're ready to have sex. Do you know what I mean? It is no longer kinky, it's the precursor to sexual activity. So it's kind of what society dictates. But just to I hate defining kink, but I'm gonna give a general overview. It's any type of normalized sexual or erotic connection between two people. Missionary sex is the the ex is non-kinky sex. It is also called vanilla when it's non-kinky. Missionary, not kinky. Blowjobs, no longer kinky, anal sex. Questionable, is it kinky or not? Because it's not a normal part of most people's sex lives. Now let's get into some of the intro to kink level things. Everything I'm gonna talk about is also in a spectrum. It could be very light to very hard. Let's talk impact play. Light impact play would be like a little spank during before sex, which a lot of us have experienced. That's a little kinky. It's not full-on kink, but that could go so hard as to be a wooden paddle that's used to leave bruises. And that would be on the far end of the spectrum in impact play. But impact play as a whole is not considered extremely kinky because spanking is probably one of the most common versions of it. Same with bondage. Sometimes people, I would not recommend tying your partner up with a tie because a silk tie can actually get very tight and cut off circulation. But for the sake of argument, let's just say tying someone up in bed. That might actually be a very beginner-level thing. Handcuffs, furry handcuffs, they sell them at like in the mall. That could be kink. But it could also go to this extreme called shibari, which is a Japanese art form of tying rope around people, and it can look quite beautiful and be very intricate and take a lot of time and take a lot of time learning how to do it, like thousands of hours to learn to do it. That would be more intricate. So that's just each individual kink on a spectrum. Now we can talk about BDSM. It can go from we're just gonna do this in the bedroom for a 30-minute scene where we talk dirty to each other, to high protocol, 24-7 lifestyle where you're constantly in your dynamic of one person being submissive and one person being dominant. However, that's still a role play. And I was used the example of if you and your Dom, like say I'm submissive and I am, and my partner is dominant, we show up to the hospital. We're not in our roles. We're like two human beings who are partners with each other, showing up for an emergency, being like, this is the situation. We're not in protocol. So that's how I define it as being a role play, a very intricate, involved role play. But it can be bondage. I mean, BDSM is a scary term. But again, spectrum. There can be hardcore things like lots of heavy impact play, bruising, even cutting and extreme play. But it can be as simple as a spanking because bondage or B stands for bondage, which I just gave the example of furry handcuffs all the way up to intricate bondage where you can't move. The D stands for discipline, right? And that could be a spanking or getting in trouble, which is my interest, but it also stands for dominance. And then that S stands for submission, which is a fun role play of power exchange, of just handing over power and playing with it and being like, you're in charge right now, you make all the decisions, and it can be fun and flirty or serious. And then the S also stands for sadism, where the M stands for masochism. So sadomasochism has quite an intense name about it. And I would say that's actually intense. And I would say sadomasochism is on the far end of the spectrum of causing a lot of pain, enjoying it, and the masochist enjoying receiving the pain. So that might be impact play that is on the extreme end. It might be emotional sadism where someone is humiliating you and making you feel bad, and you're an emotional masochist enjoying being humiliated or degraded, which to many people I know it sounds like, well, how could anybody be into that? Right. Sometimes we like to play with the taboo. We like to play with the idea that we're not smart or it's sometimes engaging in your biggest fear. For example, my biggest fear would be that I'm useless or worthless and that people found me invaluable. To play with that in your sex life in kink and just toy with it and see what it feels like to try that on. It's like acting. You get to try on that feeling.

SPEAKER_05 36:45

I I would think as with anything, anything at all. I mean, even outside the bedroom, too much of something you can start to cross lines. Too much social media, you know, affects your mental health. How you know you're playing with mental health aspects with some of the you know the the higher end of the spectrum BDSM activities. Like it's almost like you're playing with fire.

Consent, Negotiation, And Aftercare

SPEAKER_05 37:20

Where is the turnoff or turn on in that?

SPEAKER_07 37:23

So you are playing with fire, and living on the edge can be exciting for people, but here's how you keep it safe. After a scene, after anything intense, you might have experienced. So there's a high overlap of people who are neurodivergent on the autism spectrum or ADHD, being interested in kink and BDSM for many reasons. Some are attracted to the high level of communication required before, during, and after a scene where everything's talked out and planned and fully discussed because that none of this happens without extreme negotiation and consent, right? And you can't have consent without talking about it and negotiating exactly how it's gonna go. Some people also enjoy the sensory side of it. They need that extra input because their dopamine levels, like their body's ability to uh create its own dopamine, are less, I guess, skilled. So they need a dopamine hit. And sometimes this type of play keeps their mind engaged, it keeps their attention, they're focused and makes them happy and spikes something in them. But then there's something called aftercare where you've spiked and you've been feeling good. You're on this emotional high having all of these experiences. You want to come down gently, and that's where aftercare comes in. After an intense scene, at the end of the day, you check in with each other, you're like, How are you? What do you need? You're helping each other get back to baseline because you're not, no matter what it is, you're not 24-7 in this psychological role play to the point that you are changing who you are as a person. Right. And if we were to, if we were to see something like that, we would call it out in the community. Or even personally, if I had a client come to me like that, I would say, this has gone beyond normal role play because this person has lost the ability to say no. They no longer have executive function because they've handed it over so much. I have never seen that in my life. Really? No, because the people who are going into this in an ethical, consensual way are not also the people who are looking for someone who is timid and just willing to do whatever they're told to do because there's also no fun in that. The type of person who goes after someone timid is an abuser, and that isn't in the kink world. So there's no consent, negotiation. That's abuse. And I think there is a large group of people who mistake BDSM and kink for abuse. But it all comes down to I always say this as long as it's consensual between adults and legal where you are, you're good to go. But in order for it to be consensual, there needs to be negotiation. And without negotiation, you don't have consent. So you're probably just being an asshole. And that's a nice way of saying you're being abusive, you know?

SPEAKER_05 40:10

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that the more we the more we get on to that topic, it it got me thinking, well, wow, this could really be harmful if the wrong people, the wrong couple get involved in this. And, you know, I always have the question in my head about the dominatrix or the the domineer, the dominant person and the submissive person. It's like, is that really their relationship roles? Or is it the opposite of what their true relationship is? And the kink is they get to experience something different.

SPEAKER_07 40:50

It's a lot of the kink of getting to experience something different. It's playing with roles. You're not wrong about the fact that it could get quite abusive, but in my experience, abusive people do not last in the kink scene because they're immediately called out for not being consensual. And what I the where I see abuse most, I don't see it in my clients. I see uh clients talk to me about their ex-partners and how controlling they could be and different things like that. And it was never kinky at all. It was built on humiliation and degradation that wasn't consensual, wasn't asked for. In fact, it was just shaming to the person. There was no aftercare, there was no repairing what you had done. The thing about BDSM is it's there to hurt, not harm. Harm is long term. Harm is where you're messing with someone psychologically. Hurt is, oh, you hurt my feelings, but you repair them and you don't get used to you can say no and you can stop it at any time. I think that's a major difference between kink and BDSM and abuse. Kink and BDSM, there are safe words. It stops the moment you say. A lot of people will say things like, well, the sub has all the power. And I don't fully believe that because it's a power exchange, but both people hold equal power in power exchange. They can stop it, they can hand it over. In abusive relationships, one person really does have all the power to the point that they're scared to leave. Like one person's scared to leave because they truly believe that this other person holds all the power. And in Kink and BDSM, we are everyone enters it fully understanding the other person doesn't have all the power.

SPEAKER_05 42:27

Yeah. I think that's a huge distinction to make for folks that are curious, are you know possibly looking to reach out to you or possibly looking to bring this into their relationship? I think that is a huge distinction to make and that it is consensual, it is a conversation, and there's homework to do.

SPEAKER_07 42:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 42:54

There's homework to do. Understand what it is you're you're you're attempting to bring into the bedroom or what you're trying to explore together. So let's talk a little bit about how your kink experiences play into what you're currently doing now to help folks have deeper, more enriching relationships.

Kink Vs Fetish And How To Talk

SPEAKER_07 43:21

So there's something that I want to call out that I don't I do talk about this. I think on in every conversation, I always like to mention there is a difference between a kink and a fetish. And while a fetish has a terrible name, because when you when you hear the word fetish or fetishist, you think murderer, someone who can't control their urges and they need to do it and it's often seedy. The only actual difference is a kink is a nice to have, a fetish is a need to have. So I actually have a punishment fetish. And all a fetish means is I need to think about it or experience it to achieve arousal. So Maybe I'm not being spanked before sex every time, but during sex, I'm imagining a scenario where I'm being punished. In and there are plenty of fetishes. There's balloon fetishes, hair fetish, foot fetish, smoking fetish, where people need to be thinking about this thing in order to achieve orgasm. And some people are born with it. Some people, it develops later in life, maybe from a trauma or just creating this strong association between sexuality and the thing. Like there was a time in the 50s where nylon fetish was very common because young men saw nylons hanging in the bathroom and their first association was, oh, that's women, that's sex, that's the other sex. And they get obsessed with nylons and then they need, they have a nylon fetish. For me, I think I was born with my fetish. But I mentioned that because kink is a nice to have. It's nice, it spices things up in the bedroom. But if you are with a partner who is like, well, no, I need this, I really want it, I want a dirty talk about it, or I will fantasize about it to achieve arousal. You might have to look at, okay, is it a kink or is it a fetish? And there's nothing wrong with a fetish, but you have to understand if I'm not going to explore this with them, they're still going to be thinking about it. We're just not doing it together. I'm not saying they're going to run off to a dominatrix in a dungeon. They just might be fantasizing their head. For example, I had plenty of vanilla relationships with a non-kinky person. I didn't go pay a professional Dom to do it. I just was imagining it. So if your partner brings this up to you, I want you to realize, like, oh, this might just be something they want to try, or it might be something they're more deeply needing in order to achieve arousal. And I did create a free guide to help people navigate the conversation. So good. Yes. It it makes it super easy for people because it's for both people and the couple, it's to explore your individual fantasies and share them with each other, but not just the fantasy itself, like being tied up with handcuffs. It goes beyond it to talk about what is the feeling you want to feel while you explore this. Is it that you want to feel bound? If you do you want to feel like you're not in control and you reckon there's safety information in there of how to make sure you're doing it safely, but also how to understand the desire behind your partner's request. And then the other part is ask your partner if they bring this up to you or if you're mentioning it to your partner. Let's just make it obvious how important it is to you. If this is something you definitely want, name it. Tell your partner this is important to me. I want to try it. Because you could also just be saying, Oh, this would be fun to try, and you wouldn't even think about it again. But if it's something important to you, make that clear. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. So my experience has taught me I've been the kinky person trying to work with a non-kinky person in relationship. I've been the less kinky person working through things in a relationship. I have experienced and taken part in so many kinks having worked at a dungeon that there's nothing people bring to me that I've haven't heard of or experienced before. So all of that has come together in me now helping guide people, introduce kink in their relationship and sort of bring it in in a sustainable way that feels safe for both people. Nice.

SPEAKER_05 47:18

Yeah. What what is what's the most common thing couples come to you for?

SPEAKER_07 47:27

So one of the most common things people come to me for is the husband is submissive and the wife is not kinky at all. And the husband wants to explore being submissive. And this is difficult for both people because men are told to be masculine and strong and never submit and that their job is to lead. So when they want to play with this role, a lot of women will be come will come to me and just say, that's not how I was raised to believe men should be. So I'm actually disgusted by this. I think it's disgusting that he

When A Husband Wants To Submit

SPEAKER_07 48:00

wants this. It sounds like he's addicted to sex or he's obsessive. And they actually start projecting a lot. And that causes more of a rift in the relationship than the kink itself. Okay. So I work with the wives to think, like, okay, why do you feel this way? Is it society or do you feel this? Like, okay, your marriage is important to you. Do you want to try this or do you is this a hard no? And we talk about limits and boundaries, but I have a disproportionate number of clients who come to me where the husband is submissive in some way or wants to play a submissive role. They want to put their wife to play the more dominant role. And it's causing such issues that I actually launched a free women's dominant group for women who want to learn to be more dominant, are scared of it, are kind of disgusted by it, but want to learn more. Where I bring different dominant women together to help teach these non-dominant women how to do it in their relationship. And I don't allow pros into the group. This isn't about becoming a professional, it's about experiencing it in your relationship because I just was seeing it so much. And I was like, women need extra support, whether that's wrapping their heads around it or just building the confidence to play the dominant role.

SPEAKER_05 49:16

Yeah, I was gonna ask, where where's the bigger challenge in that? Is it getting them to wrap their heads around it? Because I think for me, you know, I'm thinking, if I was in that situation, I'm not married anymore. But if I if I was in that situation, my answer would probably be, no, I want you to take charge. I take charge, you know, with the house, with everything else. So I think for me, the bigger challenge would be to accept it. Once I accepted it, yeah, I'm a good student. I can I can watch, listen, and learn and understand the motive behind the desire. But it's really getting over that hump of why is this even necessary?

SPEAKER_07 49:56

For me, just no, no, no. You just unlocked some other huge part of sessions that I don't actually talk about, my client sessions. A large reason women don't want to take charge is because they're like, I'm already carrying so much of that. Are you freaking kidding me? Now you want me to add this? And so much of it is working out with the husband. Hey, you gotta be picking up the slack here. What do you what do you mean you didn't take out the garbage? What do you mean the lawn is in mode? Like, you need to be holding up your end of the bargain or else they're going to feel your bedroom life is an extension of your home, your non-bedroom life. Yes, and that is not a turn-on. So getting people to balance out their life outside of the kink and this is a huge part of it. So, yes, the acceptance, but also the life balance is important. And that that is a huge part of so many of my sessions of like getting this submissive husband, getting him to start paying attention to the parts of his life that he's been ignoring that make it harder for the wife to step up and be dominant in the bedroom as well as all the ways she's dominant in the home. Right. Right. Yeah. So you you nailed it. Like yeah, you put yourself right where most of my clients are, where they love their partner, they want their partner to be happy, they they want to make sure that, you know, when you choose a monogamous relationship, and I'm in a monogamous relationship, you have to recognize you're choosing each other, but you can't force your partner to be celibate. And I'm a firm believer of this. Sex is not a need, but then it becomes this question of but can you force someone to be celibate if you don't want sex? Can you force them to turn this part of themselves off because you don't want to do it? Or are you willing to try to see and make sure it's something you can't do before giving up on it completely?

SPEAKER_05 51:56

So, where do you see yourself going with this? What's next for you?

SPEAKER_07 52:02

Great question. I would love to make this more mainstream, this type of relationship dynamic. I think that a lot of people talk about high

Making Kink Mainstream And Getting Help

SPEAKER_07 52:10

sex drive versus low sex drive, and not enough people are talking about mismatched desire. So, what's next for me is specifically talking about this at scale. I am trying to get on podcasts. I'm trying to talk to therapy, couples therapy groups. Yeah. So if there are any therapists who want me to come speak to all of their couples, therapists about kink and fetish and desire, I have a lot to add to the conversation because I've lived it. It's not just a clinical look at it. I'm still on that mission to destigmatize it and just make people feel less alone because I want, if your husband comes to you and says, I'm submissive, I want to explore this, I don't want you to feel alone and dirty and like there's something wrong with him or you for indulging it. Like, let's normalize this, let's get this conversation out. You don't need to tell your friends at brunch on Saturday, but I don't want you feeling like there's something wrong with your relationship because you're doing it. And that's right. So my goal is to figure out how to do this at scale. I have online classes, I do, I give a lot of free information out on Instagram. I'm trying to do it myself every day, but doing it at scale and figuring out the best way to do that is my aim. And that's why I have the podcast too, because it's about getting the message out to as many places as possible.

SPEAKER_05 53:26

Yeah. So now, where can folks find you online?

SPEAKER_07 53:30

I would say start with if you are exploring kink and want to talk to your partner about it, download that free guide. And you can find that on my website at amandadames.com. If you scroll to the bottom, you can just fill out your email and get it sent straight to your email, that guide. If you want some more of that free information, go to the underscore kink consultant on Instagram. If you just are curious about kink in general, please check out my podcast, the Kink Consultant Podcast, where we go deep on every type of kink. I invite a bunch of guests on who explore different kinks and live different lifestyles with their partners so you can hear more about what it's actually like to live this life. And yeah, I think that's it. Website, podcast, you can book consults on my website and Instagram. Yeah, those are all my places.

SPEAKER_05 54:17

Awesome. Well, Amanda, thank you so much for all of your time. I'm fascinated by what you've done. And I am very hopeful for what you're doing to help couples. I know in the the trying times that we live in, if it's not one thing, it's another. And, you know, it all kind of spills into the bedroom eventually. So to have a clearer understanding in an arena that is supposed to take away some of the stress and uck of day-to-day living is so important for relationship health. So thank you for what you do, and thank you for such a fun and interesting conversation.

SPEAKER_07 55:02

Well, thank you so much for taking a chance and having me on. I really appreciate it, and I've had so much fun chatting.

SPEAKER_05 55:14

Wow, that was more like a Kink 101 class. Amanda was so much fun to have a conversation with, and she was willing to entertain any types of questions to help destigmatize kink and educate folks. There are two things that stuck out to me about my conversation with her. One was my own personal interpretation of kink. It's very stereotypical, bondage, whips, leather, discipline, etc. And how she defined the spectrum or levels of kink, it really made me question why I thought of it only in one way, and that I didn't see

Helen’s Takeaways And Closing

SPEAKER_05 56:00

behavior as mild all the way up to more intense. So that was a really interesting revelation for me. Let me know what you got out of our conversation. Another thing that stuck out was how much care and compassion she has for her clients for helping couples work through exploring kink in their relationships. Her goal is for both partners to be seen, heard, and feel stronger in their relationship. And I really admire that. So I know we barely scratched the surface on what Amanda could share. So jump down to the show notes to check out her podcast, The Kink Consultant. Visit her website and get her free guide to Kink, and follow her on Instagram. And while you're down in those show notes, don't forget to connect with me. All my socials are listed there as well. As always, thanks for listening, and I'll see you in two weeks.