Ep. 62 - The Smokin Hoggz Conversation with Bill Gillespie

One great rack of ribs can start a lifelong obsession, and Bill Gillespie proves it. We’re talking with the owner of Smokin Hoggs Barbecue, a highly decorated competitive barbecue pitmaster who’s cooked hundreds of contests across the U.S. and Canada, authored four barbecue cookbooks, and earned one of the sport’s biggest honors: induction into the Kansas City Barbecue Society Hall of Fame.

Bill walks us from his early New England backyard experiments (including the “worst ribs” stage every BBQ fan recognizes) to the moment competition barbecue clicked. We get into what KCBS judges actually score, why taste matters more than appearance, and how the “one bite” reality forces teams to build a controlled flavor punch with finishing techniques like glazes and finishing dust. If you’ve ever wondered how champions make chicken, ribs, pork, and brisket stand out on a crowded judging table, Bill lays out the mindset and the method.

We also dig into the logistics that don’t show up in a recipe: tight turn-in windows, building a repeatable timeline, the shift toward hot-and-fast barbecue cooking at higher pit temps, and the travel grind that comes with chasing trophies. Along the way, Bill shares the losses that sting, the wins that surprise, and the simple backyard barbecue tips that translate immediately to your next cook.

If you enjoy competitive barbecue, BBQ rubs and sauces, smoking brisket, and real-world pitmaster advice, hit play. Subscribe, share this with your favorite grill friend, and leave a review telling us your most proud BBQ moment.

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Smokin Hoggz on X (formerly Twitter)

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Credits

Music Credit:  True Living by Patrick Moore

Royalty free music license purchased at soundotcom.com

Transcript

Cold Open And Welcome

SPEAKER_08 0:10

Everyday people following their passions.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

That's probably like one of the highlights of my life so far. Just being able to be creative like that. I'm able to.

SPEAKER_03 0:22

And then I decided to get another hive, and that turned into a lot of hives.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

As long as I can do that, I want to be a good citizen. Help people out.

SPEAKER_08 0:33

Putting themselves out there, taking chances, and navigating challenges along the way.

SPEAKER_07 0:40

I I absolutely identified with having stage rides because, you know, anytime I went on stage, I just felt like I was having a heart attack.

SPEAKER_05 0:47

Very first laugh, very first practice session, I crashed, turned the car upside down, made a spectacle of myself, and I got back on that horse and started riding again.

SPEAKER_08 0:56

As they pursue what makes them happy and brings them joy.

SPEAKER_06 1:02

As long as people are having a good time and I have the opportunity to put smiles on people's faces. I I love what I do.

SPEAKER_04 1:08

I have done things that I never thought I could do.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

To have somebody tell me how real it looks and how, you know, from their actual memory. Because that's telling me I've captured what I was trying to get.

SPEAKER_08 1:24

Welcome to Astorted Conversations. I'm your host, Helen. Hello, hello, hello, and thanks for tuning in to another Astor Conversation. This week's episode will get your mouth watering as we talk barbecue with an award-winning barbecue pitmaster. Who doesn't love a good barbecue? This week I got to sit down with a team member and the founder of a highly decorated award-winning barbecue team who has competed in over 300 competitions throughout the U.S. and Canada. He's authored four barbecue cookbooks and was recently honored with one of the most prestigious titles in the world of competitive barbecue. Roll up your sleeves, tuck your napkin into your shirt collar, listen to this week's episode, and I'll see you on the other side.

From Ribs To First Smoker

SPEAKER_08 2:31

What happens when a love of backyard barbecue turns into a passion? And that passion takes you all the way to becoming world champions. My guest today is the owner of Smoke and Hogs Barbecue. What started with cooking for family and friends eventually led him into the competitive barbecue circuit, where Smoke and Hogs has competed across the country, earned dozens of championships, and taken home some of the biggest titles in barbecue. Along the way, he's turned his love of barbecue into a family business, complete with award-winning rubs and sauces, cookbooks, and plenty of stories from life on the competition circuit. Today we're talking about how it all started, what it takes to compete at the highest level, and what happens when passion meets perfection. I am so happy to welcome Bill Gillespie to Assorted Conversations. Hi, Bill. Hey, how are you, Helen? I am well. How are you? Good.

SPEAKER_09 3:35

I am great. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on. I'm excited to tell my story.

SPEAKER_08 3:41

Yeah, I well, I am so excited to hear it. And the first thing to me, we talked a little bit off mic. You and I grew up in the same hometown and we live in New England. So I jokingly said, I'm surprised you're not doing clam bakes and lobster boils. How in the world did you get involved with barbecue?

SPEAKER_09 4:00

So I I love ribs. And growing up, you know, we had the the closest thing we really had at where we live, you know, on the South Shore was Bugaboo Creek Steakhouse, you know, over in Braintree. Yeah. And, you know, they had they had baby back ribs. And I remember having them for the first time going, wow, these are incredible. So that was kind of like my love for starting, you know, my love for for barbecue. Yeah. But even when I was a kid, you know, my father would tell me stories of him overseas in the army, you know, cooking barbecue with all his army buddies. And and then him and I would, you know, fire up the charcoal grill in the backyard and just, you know, hot dogs and burgers and steaks and stuff like that. And he never really got into the barbecue thing as much, but as I got older, I kind of did.

SPEAKER_08 4:53

Yeah. So, yeah. Oh, very cool. Yeah, I know a lot, a lot of uh, a lot of men are grill masters.

SPEAKER_10 5:00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 5:01

But not, you know, not necessarily. I know being a grill master is a lot different than being a pit master. So what was your first entry into trying trying out your skill at barbecuing? Did you put a rub together? Did you try and make a sauce?

SPEAKER_09 5:19

So I don't know if you remember Marlboro had they had like the miles, and if you saved up so many, you could get Marlboro gear or whatever.

SPEAKER_08 5:28

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 5:29

And one one year they had a small little charcoal smoker. So my father and I saved up a ton of ton of the UPC codes, and we sent them in, and I got my first smoker. Ah. Yeah, so I I just my first, I think the first thing I ever cooked on it was a whole chicken. I figured, okay, that can't be too bad. And then I kind of worked my way over to ribs, and I remember the first couple racks of ribs I cooked on it. You know, you you you read information and you're thinking you gotta cook them for eight hours, and well, yeah, it it it's they were the worst ribs I'd ever cooked in my life. They they were awful, but you know, you learn, you have to start somewhere, right? Right. So, you know, you you kind of step back a little bit and say, okay, well, this didn't work, let me try it this way. And then, you know, over time, with a ton of practice, you know, here I am.

SPEAKER_08 6:27

Yeah, yeah. Now I know barbecue, you know, being different from grilling, barbecue is more using a low heat and you smoke and you have a much longer cooking time so that the meat is more more tender.

SPEAKER_09 6:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 6:42

It's it's like, oh, go ahead. No, go and you're the expert.

SPEAKER_09 6:46

Oh no, I was just gonna say, like larger cuts like pork butts and brisket, there's a lot to a lot of like intermuscular tissue that needs that low and slow to kind of break it down. All the collagen breaks down and it it just turns that meat into something really nice and tender. And that's why, you know, for the the low and slow kind of process.

SPEAKER_08 7:10

Yeah. Yeah. And now where does the smoking come in? Is it does everything have to be smoked?

SPEAKER_09 7:16

Uh no, it doesn't. You know, some people will, you know, they'll they'll they'll add wood chunks, some people go straight briquette charcoal, some use a lump charcoal, which is basically chunks of wood that are already sort of burnt. So you get a little residual smoke from that. It just depends on the kind of smoker you have.

SPEAKER_08 7:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 7:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 7:40

What what's your favorite material to smoke with?

SPEAKER_09 7:45

I like I use just lump charcoal.

SPEAKER_08 7:48

Really? No apple wood, maple wood.

SPEAKER_09 7:51

No, some sometimes it depends on the the charcoal that you get, but it can be it's typically like a hardwood like oak. They might throw in a little bit of apple. Depends on who the brand of charcoal you use.

SPEAKER_10 8:04

Ah, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 8:12

Because it's it it's kind of already it's just charred wood at this point. Where if you're using like a briquette, something that's compact and formed, you get less smoke flavor. So people will tend to add, you know, whether it's cherry wood, apple wood, oak, hickory, whatever.

SPEAKER_08 8:31

And I see I had no idea.

SPEAKER_09 8:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 8:35

Interesting. So, you know, as as time went on and you experimented and you know, you learned through trial and error, um, what you know, what were some of the things that you found you were good at and people, you know, kept coming back for more and more or requesting, hey, when we come over this weekend, make this.

SPEAKER_09 8:57

Yeah, I just, you know, uh barbecue's not really that big in New England. So, you know, so any chance somebody would get to have ribs, you know, and I was cooking them, they're like, you gotta make ribs next time we come over, you know. They were so good. And it's just I I just think you you kind of keep them like a balanced flavor. You know, you want a little sweet, you want a little heat, you want a little savory. And just over time, just I think I was able to create that kind of perfect bite of barbecue for people.

SPEAKER_08 9:32

Right, right. Now, you know, being from New England, and we've we both already said, you know, Bugaboo Creek was, you know, the place to go for ribs.

SPEAKER_10 9:40

Right, right.

SPEAKER_08 9:41

We we really weren't in the hot bed of barbecue. How did you or did you experiment or you know, go out and and find, you know, the different flavors?

Regional Styles And Building Flavor

SPEAKER_08 9:55

Like did you ever go to Texas or Memphis or Carolina or Kansas City to check out their barbecue?

SPEAKER_09 10:02

Not really in the beginning. It was just a lot of research, a lot of reading. Just the different regions, you know, like Texas is big on, you know, salt, pepper, garlic on their brisket, and Kansas City is more of like a sweet, like kind of a sweet, sticky sauce. You know, Memphis is more of a dry rub. You know, then you go down to Carolina, and there's a couple regions in in Carolina. You have your, you know, your vinegar-based sauces, then you have your tomato-based, which is I think further west into Carolina. And then you also have your mustard-based sauces, which is, I believe, like South Carolina, stuff like that.

unknown 10:42

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_09 10:42

So, yeah, so you just kind of read about it, and at least that's what I did back in the early days before really the internet really took off. And yeah, it's just you I I love I love all types of barbecue. Um like one of my I love a good mustard sauce. So any chance I get to have mustard sauce on like brisket or pulled pork, I absolutely love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 11:07

Okay. Well now with your sauces and and your style, uh, where do you where do you where do you fall?

SPEAKER_09 11:17

I would fall probably closer to the Kansas City style. And so I compete under the Kansas City Barbecue Society. So they have a a certain criteria that you sort of follow. And that's kind of where my flavor is sort of based around. It's like sweet, savory, a little spicy. Um you know, it's a kind of a balance of all three of those.

SPEAKER_08 11:41

Yeah. It's funny. I have purchased, and they it they arrived today, so I wasn't able to make anything with them in time, but I have purchased some stuff from the website, and uh I am so looking forward to to trying it out. I have a great crock pot recipe that I think I'm gonna make tomorrow. Perfect. We'll uh we'll see how that goes. Yeah. So Kansas City, now you you you spoke about the the competition.

Entering Competitions And Forming A Team

SPEAKER_08 12:10

Yeah. When did you when was your first competition? Because you had been competing, what, for over 22 years.

SPEAKER_09 12:17

Yeah, yeah. So I worked at a place in Rockland. A couple of the guys that I worked with got together on the weekends and just they cook barbecue, ribs, chicken, whatever. And there was a contest down, this is 2005, down in the Bonxtable County Fairground, down on the Cape Cape Cod. Yep. They asked if I wanted to come along, and there were four main categories chicken, pork ribs, pork shoulder, and beef brisket. Those are the four main categories that I cook at every competition now. And there was a fifth category, and it was an anything but. So what that means is anything but those four categories. So you could, I mean, you could still do chicken. Yeah, you could do steak, you could do fish, whatever. So at the time I just started kind of messing around with like a grilled salmon. So I said, Oh, well, let me do my grilled salmon. And the the catch was you had to use anything with cranberry. So I did a grill, yeah, a grilled salmon with a cranberry glaze, and I got my very first call. I got fourth place in that. Yeah, at my first competition. I remember we got like a little medal and like a a check for 25 bucks, I think it was. But but you got bragging right. I got bragging right. So my fourth place at my very first competition, and yeah, that was uh I knew then and there like that was what I wanted to do.

SPEAKER_08 13:41

Oh, that that is so cool. Now you have a day job, and we don't have to get into that, but this side gig, this side gig actually turned it, uh it just continued to grow with the passion that you had.

SPEAKER_09 13:56

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, you know, I did it just because I like to cook anyway. So as a kid, I enjoyed cooking. And and I was in the boys' coach, and they taught you how to cook over the open fire as well. And as I get older, you know, I would we'd go camping, I would do all the cooking, I'd bring my grill, stuff like that. And I got into competition barbecue, and it was just for the fun, just to go out and just cook and cook barbecue and have a good time on the weekend. Yeah, my with my you know, my wife was is part of a team, my best friend, he's on the team, you know. It before before the three of us, there was a few other people, and then you know, life happens and they go their ways and stuff like that. But and it just we kinda how do I so yeah, we we started competing and 2008 I started my own team, Smoking Hogs Barbecue. And 2010 I actually took a competition class from one of the guys in the region that had just won the Jack Daniels World Barbecue Championships. So he offered a class, and I'm like, Oh, I gotta take that. I gotta see like what I'm doing that's just off a little bit. And took his class the following year, I got my first grand championship following the program and just tweaking it, and then we've just we've been since since then, since 2011, we've been, you know, successful every year. And it's just sort of grew grew into opportunities for products and cookbooks and stuff like that.

KCBS Judging And Finishing Touches

SPEAKER_08 15:46

What uh you know, after taking that class, what did you find out or what did you learn that seems to, with practice, elevated we what your results were?

SPEAKER_09 15:57

Yeah, that's a great question. So I learned it's it's how you finish things. Like in competition, the judge is literally taking one bite. So they'll get six samples of say of chicken. They take a bite from each piece, and then the same thing with ribs, pork, and brisket. So at the end of it, it's a lot of food. So what you're trying to do is you're trying to pack as much flavor and and like that wow factor into that one bite that they're gonna take. So a lot of it at the end, it's like uh you'll maybe finish your ribs with like a like a little bit of a glaze, and then whatever seasoning that you used, you can grind it up into like a powder, and they call it finishing dust. And you sprinkle a little of finishing dust over it to give it that little bit more of a puff. So that's kind of what I learned from that class was we were really close as far as tenderness goes, but our flavor was lacking. So learning the finishing techniques really elevated our our program.

SPEAKER_08 17:05

Huh. And it's you mentioned a couple of the judging criteria, tenderness, flavor. What are there any others?

SPEAKER_09 17:13

Yeah, yeah. So it's appearance, taste, and tenderness. And all three are weighted differently. Appearance weighted the least, taste is the most, and then tenderness is the in the middle.

SPEAKER_08 17:27

Wow. And now are all competitions judged uh with that same criteria?

SPEAKER_09 17:34

Similar. There's there's a lot of sanctioning barbecue competition bodies out there. The Kansas City Barbecue Society is the largest in the world. Texas has probably three or four different sanctioning bodies. I know Florida has one out Washington State, like the Pacific Northwest.

SPEAKER_10 17:55

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_09 17:56

Uh yeah, different regions have, like even New England, so it's now it's the Northeast Barbecue Society. Really? Yeah, yep, yep. So yeah, every region kind of has their own little thing, but most of them kind of follow the Kansas City Barbecue Society.

SPEAKER_10 18:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 18:15

They kind of yeah, they kind of model after that.

SPEAKER_08 18:19

They're the big kahuna. Correct.

SPEAKER_09 18:21

Yeah. Yeah. And I I I would say I do about 95% of the contests I do are sanctioned by the the KCBS for short.

SPEAKER_08 18:31

Wow. So what it what is that setup like? There's kind of the main governing body, and then you mentioned sanctions.

SPEAKER_09 18:39

Well, like, so it just meaning you so no matter what contest I go to, you have a set of rules. It's the same if I compete in Boston, if I go to do Kansas City Barbecue Society contest in California. It's all the same rules, the same criteria. That's it's just mean that's what I mean by sanctioning. Got it. Yeah, yeah. They provide the rules and the setup. They have, you know, reps that come in and run the contest, and the organizer gets the judges. All the judges are certified through the Kansas City Barbecue Society as well.

SPEAKER_08 19:15

Mm-hmm. Is there is it like I don't want to say brackets, but that's probably the only thing I can think of that you, you know, kind of like the playoffs. Like you you you go to this competition and you win it so that you can be invited or you can compete in the next one.

SPEAKER_09 19:32

Correct. Yeah. So so these competitions are pretty much all like state championships. And there can be more than one state championship in the state. And that's just by you just go to the governor of the state and say, Hey, can you g make this a state championship? And it's they go through their whole thing and say, Yep, no problem, you know. But yeah, so if you win one of these contests, you qualify for the American Royal in Kansas City, the Jack Daniels down in Tennessee, the Houston Livestock and Rodeo, Memphis in May, like all like the big competitions, like these are kind of stepping stones for those.

SPEAKER_08 20:15

Okay. So when did you hit your first big competition?

Winning Program Hot And Fast Strategy

SPEAKER_09 20:23

Yeah, so 2011. You know, we we jumped into the season with our new program. I had basically spent the entire offseason, the entire winter practicing my new program. We got our first grand championship, and we went on to win like three in a row, and one of them got us an automatic bid to the Jack Daniels World Barbecue Championships in October. So, you know, we we went down to there and we actually won that year in two 2011.

SPEAKER_10 20:57

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_09 20:58

Yeah, that was my that was my fourth ever grand championship was winning the Jack Daniels World Barbecue Championships.

SPEAKER_08 21:06

Holy cow. Yeah. I I I I can't imagine. Now you said you practiced your system or your routine.

SPEAKER_09 21:13

Well every yeah, the whole like the process, like the the the cooking process, the recipes. I actually bought the smoker that the guy was using at the class. I bought it from him because I was so kind of invested. I'm like, okay, I have to get better. I I was out there every weekend, you know, my myself and Alan, we were on my back deck cooking and just I I got to the point where my wife was like, Yeah, I can't eat any more chicken. You have to stop.

SPEAKER_10 21:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 21:47

So what what goes into preparing for one of those top tier competitions?

SPEAKER_09 21:54

You know, I always say kind of don't you don't want to change anything. You want of cook what got you there. Yeah. Right. So you might maybe fine-tune like a timeline or just tighten things up a little bit. But you just want to make sure you have like the best quality meats. You know, you follow your timeline, your process, and you kind of like, you know, like like Bill Belichick used to say, you can only control the things you can control. You know what I mean? So that's you try to control everything that you can to make you successful that that kind of got you to that spot.

SPEAKER_08 22:32

Mm-hmm. Do you do is it timed? It's got to be timed.

SPEAKER_09 22:36

Yeah. So there's the turn in times you have a 10 minute window and turn inside at noontime. So you have from five of till five past for chicken and then 1230 is ribs, one o'clock is pork, and 130 is brisket. So you have that 10 minute window to get things turned into the judges. So yeah, so you yeah you you put things on at a certain time you kind of have an idea okay so chicken's going to take like an hour and a half to cook. So you want to make sure you have time to to finish it you know with the finishing dust and get it ready to put it into the box and make it look all pretty and then enough time to walk it to the judging tent and drop it off and come back and start prepping for the next turn.

SPEAKER_08 23:25

Yeah. So how early do you start on a competition day?

SPEAKER_09 23:30

So I used to cook overnight like the big meats like pork and brisket. The trend nowadays is cooking hot and fast. So like hot and fast meaning like anywhere from three to three hundred degrees where I used to cook before like 225 to 250 so now I get up at like 430 in the morning and then I fire up my cookers and then I put my my meats on and I you know I cook them a little hotter 300 to 350.

SPEAKER_08 24:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 24:04

Wow it does it do anything to the texture of the meat no you not not really but you can bring the internal temperature of the meat up a little higher so for example like for for brisket I use a I use a quality like I use a Wagyu brisket um and so there's a lot more fat content in there. So if I was to do a an overnight brisket I to finish it I would probably be looking at around like 200 to maximum 205 degrees internal temperature. And that's at cooking low and slow. So hot and fast allows me to bring that internal temperature up to like 21213 214 just because it's you need that kind of that higher temps to help break down all that collagen and the intramuscular fats and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_10 25:04

Right.

SPEAKER_09 25:05

All the the science behind it.

SPEAKER_08 25:07

Yep yeah how when you travel to a competition what like what do you take with you? And who do you take with you?

SPEAKER_09 25:17

Yeah so uh right now it's just it's my wife and I we we travel we have a a 35 foot trailer that has living quarters it's so it has a bed a bathroom and a shower. Not everybody has this kind of a setup but you know we have a refrigerator in there and my smokers are mounted on the back of it. So we bring all our supplies that we need you know for a contest and it's all inside the trailer you mentioned one of the I think you mentioned it off mic.

SPEAKER_08 25:50

One of the recent competitions oh maybe you mentioned it on mic was on a really really hot weekend we had here in New England a couple weeks ago. Yes. How did how do you handle that?

SPEAKER_09 26:03

So uh you don't really do a lot you know you you kinda sit outside and everything but thankfully our trailer has an air conditioning so if you get too hot you know you just sort of you step inside for a few minutes and and kind of cool off and yeah you manage. You get by, you know.

SPEAKER_08 26:24

Yeah. Yeah I think I think that would be a drawback for me.

SPEAKER_09 26:28

Yeah I melt in the heat. Oh yeah before we had the trailer I mean we used to bring those canopies those 10 by 10 canopies and we'd have like four or five fans going at full full blast trying to cool down. So yeah it's it's the the evolution of competition barbecue has certainly changed for us.

SPEAKER_08 26:48

Yeah oh I bet I bet how are are the pub is the public allowed in to watch the cooking and because I've seen it televised.

Life On The Road At Contests

SPEAKER_09 27:00

Yeah so they it depends on the event. So the one that we had a couple weeks ago they had a people's choice event on Saturday so a bunch of teams they would they gave you like 60 pounds of chicken wings so you cooked it and you turned it into a central area and they had like a people's choice. So so the public can you know be interactive with the teams in that aspect some competitions there's no public because it's not there's no festival involved. Right. But I'd say 50% of the contests that we do have a public facing event. So the we did one a month ago down in Pennsylvania it was it was over three days they had a people's choice competition they had a festival with vendors and it's one of like the better events kind of on the east coast and you know there's events that we go to at a campground and like there's no public facing event you know it's just a competition. So interesting are the big ones just competition no the the Jack Daniels has a public facing event uh they have a bunch of vendors and they have some live cooking demos and stuff like that. Same with the American Royal they have a lot of teams so the American Royal is the largest barbecue competition in the world. So they have an invitational contest which you have to have won a grand championship to to compete and then they have it open and that's open to anybody that wants to compete. Uh-huh and they usually have like 500 teams for that so that's usually on day two on the Sunday so Friday night is a huge party night like people they rent you know a hundred by hundred tents they bring in live bands and huge parties and like it's it's a crazy crazy time but it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_08 29:01

Oh it sounds it I think I might just go for that. Yeah right so when you know once you started getting the recognition and you know having success in these competitions and people started to I'm sure know who you are and you know know your know your spices and and and know what your style is at what point did smoke and hogs become a sauce and a and a rub company?

Cookbooks Rubs Sauces Hall Of Fame

SPEAKER_09 29:32

So that that actually happened after my first cookbook. I can I'll tell you that story and then I'll leave into the sauce and rubs yeah so so in 2013 the Jack Daniels hosted their 25th anniversary competition. So they invited back all the past champions to cook in a separate event. So while I was there I got introduced so the there's a team called IQ that won the Jack Daniels Daniels in 2009. That's the class that I took in 2010. Yeah so he they were there with his he had just written a cookbook I got introduced to his publisher a couple months after that I got the the invite I I got the opportunity to write a cookbook of my own and that's kind of where that started. Huh yeah so that was in 2014 I started writing the book and I believe it came out late I can't actually that book came out in 2015. So but 2014 we won the American Royal in Kansas City I got approached by a a seasoning company asking me if I had a seasoning that I'd like to bring out to market and I said well as a ma yeah as a matter of fact yes I do so that kind of got me it was kind of a like a chain reaction.

SPEAKER_08 30:56

Yeah yeah yeah I love it I mean this all started in your backyard I mean back in the day chatting with dad all the way up to grilling with a friend and your wife hopping in and just experimenting and playing around and competing. Exactly and it now I mean you're you just grew and grew and grew from getting the cookbook to you know putting together the sauces and and the rubs it's it's absolutely amazing to me. In the twin in you know plus all of the accolades you've won from the Jack Daniels and in the Kansas City circuit I mean just huge awards. What are there any other accomplishments that you're especially proud of that really shows you've made your mark in the in the barbecue industry yeah so I I just got inducted into the Kansas City Barbecue Society Hall of Fame.

SPEAKER_09 31:55

Oh that's fantastic back in congratulations thank you thank you back in February yeah so I I found out at the end of last year that it was going to happen and so every year they had they host a an awards banquet so they they give out awards for team of the year like you can compete for points and get team of the year and stuff like that. So and I I was part of the second class of Hall of Famers. So they did a huge class last year in 2025 which was the first official class and I just missed out on that but got in on the second class. So it's it's kind of a new thing that they they decided to do and I feel pretty pretty honored to be you know included so early on yeah in the second class out yeah yeah so it was there are people that are not in the rock and roll hall of fame.

SPEAKER_08 32:52

Yeah and you get in on the second it's fantastic yeah it's it's amazing so yeah I was I'm still still like uh in in shock of it really you know yeah oh no congratulations well earned thank you thank you over your 22 years of competing yeah I'm sure you have core memory moments that you're like this is going on the highlight rail and then you have other moments where you would just as soon forget yeah yeah tell me a competition story or a story from the road that didn't exactly it it challenged

Setbacks Motivation And Lucky Moments

SPEAKER_08 33:36

you. I mean there's never I there's never a failure there's only lessons but oh yeah yeah give me a time where something challenged you because I I know this whole path we're oversimplifying and making it seem so rosy but yeah I'm sure like any other path it's not yeah I I mean we this is god I think this was 2021 just so it's fairly recent we were at the there was the Kansas City Barbecue Society it was their invitational event and it was out in Kansas and so we we went out there we drove out and we you know we did the contest and I ended up getting last place in brisket and yeah and and you know out of 80 something teams and I look at the results and it was like last place brisket I'm like well you know that's that's not good.

SPEAKER_09 34:31

Wow so yeah it's just you know it's that kind of thing it just motivates you. It's like okay I don't want that ever to happen again you know what am I gonna do to to fix that you know and then a lot of it too it's like there's a little bit of luck involved like getting on the right tables with the judges with that many teams there's so many tables and but you know it's just you you kind of you almost have to have a short memory because you need to sort of leave that in the past and try to move on from it. You know sort of learn from it but move on a little bit.

SPEAKER_08 35:06

What do you think happened?

SPEAKER_09 35:08

Was it something in the cook or you know was it you know it was something might have been a little off like it could have been you know maybe maybe some of the fat dripped it was the cooker that I was using maybe some of the fat dripped down on the hot coals and it just gave like a weird taste to it or something. Or yeah I mean I I can't remember exactly but I I do remember something was a little off with it. So we we tried to make the best of it and it just you know unfortunately didn't work out. Yeah later on that night we're in the casino and I hit for $7500 on the slot machine. So I was okay with that oh that's so funny.

SPEAKER_08 35:47

Well Bill, you and I have an awful lot in common. Yeah that's so funny. Yeah yeah what about you know like travel stories I can't imagine it's got to be easy no matter how well equipped you are I can't imagine it's it's got to be easy to make those road trips.

SPEAKER_09 36:05

No I mean we've had we've had tire blowouts on the trailer ran out of fuel stuff it's just you know it's some things you you can control other things you can't but you know you just have to kind of be prepared for everything really right you know right yeah and and what about some of the some of the upsides to the to the competition journey to kind of get to the echelon where you're at yeah what were some of the what are some of the good good things that have happened so okay so we this was I think in 2014 we felt we were at a contest down in Pennsylvania we felt we had a a pretty good cook you know like we were pretty happy with everything and you know they they announced the awards and we had we got nothing in chicken nothing in ribs nothing in pork and then they're calling down on brisket and still nothing and first place brisket we got the call and I'm like okay this is good because I I knew brisket was good so then there was a couple of teams that had like three really good like top five finishes so I'm like okay it's one of those two teams that won. So they called one of them for third they called the other team for second and I'm like wow who won this you know and then they called us and we we ended up we won the contest and we won the contest because our brisket soil was so high much higher it just the way that the scoring worked like we we ended up winning by like I think seven points completely took me by surprise you know just because I didn't think you know after not getting just getting the one call right um to get overall grand champion for that event that was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_08 37:53

That's awesome. That's awesome.

Backyard Barbecue Tips You Can Use

SPEAKER_08 37:56

Well you know I I'm sure a lot of folks are listening and they're they're they're certainly not barbecue con uh competition folks but they're they're backyard grill masters slash smokers or pen masters. What's some basic stuff that folks can do to make their barbecue better?

SPEAKER_09 38:18

Keep the lid closed don't don't constantly be opening and closing it. You lose time let it do its thing you know like if you if your ribs take you know four hours to cook you know maybe open up the cooker once you know just to check them halfway through and just let let this let the cooker kind of do the work you know what about what about prepping the meat and cuts of meat yeah I mean so the prep is kind of easy you know you just kind of trim off some like if you're trimming ribs or something like you want to trim some of like the loose fat or whatever pull that membrane off the back you know you can season it like an hour before you throw it on on the smoker. You know keep it simple. You don't have to get extravagant you know with it.

SPEAKER_08 39:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 39:16

I know my my backyard barbecue is is night and day different from from my competition barbecue. Like personally I like ribs a certain way but for competition because I have to try to impress that judge with one bite I'm I'm packing a ton of flavor. So my competition ribs are like super rich. You might be able to eat one or two bones where like a rack of my backyard ribs you could probably eat you know eight or ten bones of it and and not feel so like heavy you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_08 39:49

Yeah yeah yeah you know it's funny it was a good point where you have to impress in one bite that really has to be like flavor overload because exactly normally you know if you if you're eating more than a couple ribs you're gonna be tasting that wow yeah yeah do you have a favorite and you don't have to give away secret recipes but do you have a favorite rib rub or homemade barbecue that you like to put together?

SPEAKER_09 40:17

I do like like I said I like I make a mustard sauce that I absolutely love. So I I make it every once in a while and I'll throw it on some grilled chicken or even like chicken fingers dunking it dunking it you know chicken yeah it's just I just love a good mustard sauce.

SPEAKER_08 40:36

So yeah Okay. I have we were never again being New England never big big on ribs and there was one year I was having a 4th of July cookout at my house and I was like oh let me see if I can find like a good rib recipe. So I found a dry rub recipe and it was online and it was somebody's family recipe. I don't know why they put it online it was just sugar black pepper white sugar brown sugar salt black pepper and paprika. Oh wow and you just throw it in a container toss it together you put it on the ribs and then you let them you let the rib sit and you do you know bone side as well as the flesh side and then you know you cook them on the grill low and slow. But you don't put them on the grill for 10 minutes because that dry rub turns to a liquid and it looks like they're they're glossy. Yeah they're like they're coated in a barbecue sauce. Yeah it is the best rub on ribs, pork chops, chicken. We tried it on steak I didn't like it on steak.

SPEAKER_09 41:49

Probably too sweet. Yeah yeah yeah yeah so that that salt and sugar kind of helps to draw out some of that moisture to give it that I do the same thing with my ribs like I'll I'll season the back side I'll let it sit for 30 minutes I'll flip them over and I'll season the top side and I'll let them sit. And they call that it's like you let the meat you let it sweat. So it draws out that moisture to kind of help adhere the the rub to the to the meat.

SPEAKER_08 42:16

Yeah it is and like once the once the heat or the flame hits that sugar and it caramelizes it gives it such a great flavor.

SPEAKER_09 42:24

Yeah oh my gosh. When I do a pork butt at home I kind of do the same thing and I I'll let it go for 12 hours. I'll cook it overnight so that next morning I'll do it with the fat cap facing up so all that kind of moisture is dripping down over. And that's the first thing I go for is that fat cap because it's got all that caramelization of the sugars and I'll just grab a big old chunk of that and eat it. And it's just it's pure fat and seasoning and it's just it's my favorite.

SPEAKER_08 42:58

So it it it's probably heaven. Oh it is it is so with all the accolades and and the awards that you've won what what are some of the wow moments that you've had like have has a chef or a you know another pit master maybe that you followed and admired or even a celebrity you know taken notice and approached you yeah I I've had you know a couple people like just I did had no like they're kind of big in the barbecue world you know like come up to me and and just they'll tell a story and they'll say I remember when you did this and it's like wow they actually notice me you know it's just kind of yeah it's just it's weird. Yeah. No, I mean again you you seem to be I you know in the in the upper upper echelon of of the Barbecue world. So not surprised people don't take notice of what you do and how you do things.

SPEAKER_09 44:06

Sure. Yeah, I you know, I I don't know. I I don't I don't really pay too much attention to it. Like I do, but I don't. Like I just I just kind of focus on my thing, you know? Yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_08 44:19

I I I don't know if that makes sense or not, but yeah, no, no, it it it absolutely does. Because I, you know, from what from some of the the competitions I've seen televised on TV, there's usually a celebrity judge, or you know, celebrities are hanging out there, or there are a ton of celebrities that are, you know, barbecue fans. I was just curious to see if you had been approached by anybody.

SPEAKER_09 44:42

Yeah, I I mean I've I've met, I can't remember I can't, I'm gonna butcher his last name. But it's he's on the food network, Simon Mitch. Oh my god. It's a it's a big long, it starts with an M. Uh, he's a bald guy, he's he's got an English accent. Oh he actually I I I met him and he actually wrote one of the endorsements on one of my books. I was yeah, I was a I was totally shocked. Yeah. Yeah, it was pretty awesome. And I I can't I can't remember, I can't say his last name because I'm gonna butcher it and I don't know.

SPEAKER_10 45:22

Tom Petzika?

SPEAKER_09 45:26

No, it starts with an M. Simon, hold on. I'll think of it in a second.

SPEAKER_08 45:34

All right. Uh no pressure. Yeah no pr I just I just did a quick lookup. You know, uh let's get back to uh let's talk about the books. I know you know we touched on your first one. How is each book different?

SPEAKER_09 45:50

So the first book was done on Weber Smoky Mountain. Uh and I was kind of showing the versatility of it where you can cook low and slow, hot and fast, you can set it up like a grill. My next book was not about the cooker, but about the meat. So I did basically it was pretty much anything pork. So from you know, from from doing like bacon all the way to whole hog. And we cooked on a bunch of yeah, a bunch of different cookers. My third book was done on the the Weber Kettle Grill. Uh so I wanted to show the versatility of the of a charcoal grill. And then my last book was back to the WSM, but more of an in-depth on hot and fast cooking.

SPEAKER_08 46:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 46:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_08 46:43

Perfect. And and I gotta ask you, with all of uh, you know, the experience that you've had, the 22 years of competition, the fact that after 22 years of competition, you still have your day job and this is still a side gig for you. Pretty much, yeah. What what is it that keeps you going? I you know, you shared a couple stories that you know would have made anybody think twice about continuing on. Sure. What is it that keeps you going?

SPEAKER_09 47:15

I'm very competitive. So you know, growing up, I played softball, golf, I bowled. You know, I was into sports and everything. So this has kind of taken over that, you know, that competitive, that sporting thing, you know. Um so I'm very competition driven. So when I don't do well, it drives me to to do better the next time.

SPEAKER_10 47:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 47:42

Um, you know, I mean nobody likes to lose, but you you gotta you gotta learn how to lose before you can win, right?

SPEAKER_10 47:50

Right.

SPEAKER_09 47:51

So yeah, so that that it just kind of it's it's always in the back of my mind, you know, to to try to do better every time.

SPEAKER_08 48:00

Yeah. What what what do you get out of of doing this?

SPEAKER_09 48:06

I just, you know, it always is the reaction of people when they taste the food.

SPEAKER_08 48:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 48:12

That's that's pure 100% joy for me, is to see when somebody eats like one of my ribs and you just see the look on their face and like, oh my god, this is so good. And I I it's just it's I love that feeling.

SPEAKER_08 48:27

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 48:29

I mean, I've had I've had plenty of other times, you know, where I cook in for my wife, and she's like, Yeah, this isn't good. But again, that's that's why I do that at home versus, you know.

SPEAKER_08 48:41

Right, right. Are you branching out into any other types of cooking styles or are you sticking with barbecue?

SPEAKER_09 48:47

Pretty much barbecue and grilling.

SPEAKER_08 48:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 48:49

Yeah, yeah, those are the the two that I I enjoy doing. I might get into some chili competitions. I love I love making chili, so you know, that's an option as well.

SPEAKER_08 49:00

Ah, okay. I was getting, you know, my my other question was gonna be, what do you hope people get out of what you do? And you you kind of just answered that for me. Yeah. You want to make them happy.

SPEAKER_09 49:12

You want to make them happy. I want to make them happy. I want to make them, I want to make it a memorable moment for them. Yeah. I had a judge come up to me a year or s a year ago and says, you know, she goes, your chicken was the best piece of chicken I've ever had in my life. Wow. And and she still tells me that to this day. She goes, I still haven't had a piece of chicken as good as the piece of chicken I had, you know, of yours. And I'm like, wow, that's pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_08 49:41

So nice. Nice. I'm so glad that you know what you do, you you make yourself happy because you have the right mindset for competition, is you're not competing against anybody else. You're competing to be better than you were yesterday. Exactly. And that you know, what you do brings other people joy. So that is fantastic.

Where To Find Smokin Hoggs

SPEAKER_08 50:03

Where can where can people find you online?

SPEAKER_09 50:08

So they can find on my website www.smokin'hogs. Smoking hogsbbq.com, and that's s-m-o-k-in-h o-g-g-z-bq.com.

SPEAKER_08 50:23

Perfect.

SPEAKER_09 50:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_08 50:25

Awesome.

SPEAKER_09 50:26

Yeah, it's all the same for social media as well. Facebook, Instagram, whatever, whatever else is out there for social media, you know.

SPEAKER_08 50:35

Make sure there are there are links in the show notes. Oh, cool, cool. To uh to your site, your product. I mean, the site is fantastic, and there's a lot of there's a lot of good information, not just about smoking hogs, but you know, the the cookbooks are there, the sauces, the spices, the rubs, and really, you know, much more in-depth about what what Bill's journey has been and just how successful it's been. So I will make sure folks can check that out. Thank you.

SPEAKER_09 51:06

And locally we're we're available at Truke's supermarket.

SPEAKER_08 51:10

Oh, okay. Yep. I for for for for those of us on the South Shore, because I don't think Trukey's is even in Boston or on the North Shore.

SPEAKER_09 51:19

No.

SPEAKER_08 51:19

I'll make sure there's a link.

SPEAKER_09 51:21

Yeah, thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 51:22

Oh, that's so funny. Yeah, fantastic. Well, Bill, I have so enjoyed learning more about your passion for barbecue. This is the perfect time of year for it. Um, actually, any time of year is the perfect time of year for barbecue.

SPEAKER_09 51:37

We're so getting into football season, so tailgating, that's the best time.

SPEAKER_08 51:41

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I I I can't thank you enough. I love that this just started as something you had an interest in because you ate something that just perked up your taste buds, and it has taken you on this wild journey. A lot of hard work, a lot of effort, a lot of talent, and a lot of skill. And just I don't know. I I've just had a great time talking to learning all about it.

SPEAKER_09 52:09

I've had a great time telling my story too. I love I love to tell it, it's fun. I like to educate people, you know, on barbecue. And because we, you know, we all started at at that one spot, right? Where we didn't know anything. So to have somebody there, you know, answering questions for you. It's just I think it's needed. So yeah.

SPEAKER_08 52:31

Absolutely. Yeah, Bill, thank you so much. Please give my my best to Sean.

SPEAKER_09 52:37

I will. Yes. And I'm sorry we missed her tonight. I know, I know. Maybe maybe another time.

SPEAKER_08 52:43

That's right. That's right. Well, thank you so much for your time. I've really enjoyed getting to know you.

SPEAKER_09 52:48

Yeah, same here.

SPEAKER_08 52:54

We packed a lot into that conversation, and now I'm just a little hungry. I took a few nuggets away from Bill's story. First, I'm so impressed with his drive and ability to juggle multiple priorities as he pursued his passion. He works as a design engineer for a utility company, which is a demanding job. He has a wife, raised a family, plus did all of the research, education, practice, and travel to compete. Makes me feel like I don't manage my time well enough. That is a lot for anyone. And for Bill to achieve the level of success he did, it's a true testament to how much joy he gets from this passion. The other thing that struck me about his journey was how he never stopped learning and continued to experiment, trying new things to get his flavors just right. He never folded in the face of losing and just continued to push through. Both his dedication and his ability to juggle all of those priorities opened up new avenues for him, with the cookbook, with the rubs and the spice company approaching him. He just created so much more opportunity for himself by never giving up. Sometimes we don't know where the journey is leading, but as long as we're moving forward, we make progress. So if we've tempted your taste buds, jump down to the show notes for links to the Smokin' Hogs website where you can read more about Bill or purchase his sauces, rubs, cookbooks, and follow him on social media. And while you're there, don't forget to connect with me. All my social media links are there as well. As always, thanks for listening and I'll see you in two weeks.